Podcast Episode 3: WWJD?

This week, I discuss the impact that declining law school enrollment has had on Catholic University's budget.  (Spoiler alert: they're going to continue feeding at the law school loan trough, but some art courses and such are on the chopping block).  Also, part 2 of my interview with Howard, a former law school classmate who is now working in a non-legal position.  Howard and I discuss his first lawyer gig, and why he got out.  And finally, a segment on

"Don't Pee On My Leg and Tell Me It's Raining"

Can anyone say it better than Judge Judy?  More shenanigans by law schools desperate to inflate job statistics.  The George Washington School of Law is hiring graduates to work in temporary positions for up to 48 weeks.  Well, at least that'll help indebted law grads ride out the legal job market "slump" (which has been occurring for years).  Except that these lucky lawyers will be earning just $15 per hour (up to 35 hours per week).  A little quick math for you - that's $25,200, pre-tax, for the maximum 48-week period.  A graduate with $100K in student loans with a repayment period of 25 years and a 5% interest rate will be required to pay $584.59 per month. On a $25,000 salary, that's 28% of gross pay.  Which is totally doable.  Most people can swing student loan payments that are the equivalent of their housing costs, right? And I'm sure that by the end of the 48 weeks, most of these grads will be gainfully employed.

In other legal news, Northwestern has decided to cut its incoming class by 10% (while still raising tuition).  This is due in part to the declining number of law school applications (slow clap for the early scam bloggers).

Old School: The Outdated Law School Model

Photo courtesy of stockfreeimages.com

I came across this recent post in Outside the Law School Scam, a blog you should definitely check out.  The post was a call to action on the part of scambloggers - what are they/we looking for exactly?  I then remembered that I wrote a post about the flaws I see in the current law school model, as well as some changes I'd like to see (scroll to the bottom of my post if you want to cut to the chase) about a year and a half ago.  I think it's worth re-posting, since it could benefit anyone considering going to law school.  My ideas for change are simple, although probably difficult to implement.  So just to keep the message going about the potential financial and career pitfalls that await newly minted JD's, here you go: The Flawed Law School Model (October 2011).

What changes would you like to see implemented?  Shutting down all law schools?  Shutting down all for-profit law schools?  Caps on tuition?  Student loan reform?  I'd love to hear them!

A Hollow Victory

As you can see from the pic posted here, I have fully repaid one of my student loans.  This particular loan came directly from my school, which is why I cut out references to my alma mater's name.  That leaves me with one other loan that I am currently repaying, and then I am done.  I have about one more year, give or take, of Spartan living before I am debt-free, and I can close the dark chapter of my life known as Law School.  When I received this payoff notice, at first I felt a sense of pride and hope.  Soon I would actually be able to save some of the money I earn and build wealth for my future.

But after I read and re-read the second sentence, pride and hope were replaced with frustration and sadness.  Because I repaid my loan, some other poor schmuck now has the ability to take out crippling student loan debt.  And my school's low default rate remains intact, resulting in further federal student loan funding.


I suppose some might believe that since I repaid my loan, as so many fellow alumni of my school have, then I must have benefited from higher education.  After all, how could I earn enough to repay my loan in under five years if my employment prospects had not brightened as a result of my degrees?

Having the benefit of hindsight, I can honestly say now that I did benefit somewhat from my earning my bachelor's degree.  The positions I've held since graduating have all required a four-year degree (save for some moonlighting jobs I have taken in order to repay my loans at a faster rate), and almost everyone has one nowadays, so it's hard to compete in the marketplace without one.  BUT.  I should not have taken out student loan debt to earn it.  Although I worked almost full-time during my undergraduate years, I realize now that I could have cash-flowed my BA had I worked and saved for a couple more years before enrolling.  It might have taken me longer to get through my program, but probably not as many more months or years as it has taken me to pay off half of my loans.  And, I would not have had to pay interest.

As far as my law degree is concerned, I can honestly say now that I did not benefit from earning my JD.  The positions I've held since graduating (aside from any associate/law school intern positions) have been obtained by omitting or downplaying my law degree on resumes and applications.  I do not list my JD on my resume (a resume is, after all, just a marketing tool), and when I fill out applications, I only list my JD if I am asked to list all of my higher education degrees.  The fact of the matter is simply that employers do not want to employ lawyers or JD's in non-lawyer positions.  Unless that lawyer or JD is going to run a fortune 500 company or teach law.  Last time I checked, I think all of those positions have been filled.

I am not sure what else to say about law school to those considering it, except: Don't go.  Please.  You will absolutely regret it.  I do not know any happy lawyers, or any recent graduates who are happy that they decided to attend.  I cannot put it any simpler.  It will leave you in a financial hole that will take years, if not decades, to crawl out of.  And the legal market is saturated.  What else can be said?

I hope this post will give some of my fellow JD's and recovering lawyers some hope for their financial futures.  I am not debt-free yet, but I know I will be soon.  At that point, I will be able to say that law school took [X number of] years from me, rather than my entire life.

The Flawed Law School Model

I have referenced the law school "scam" and the failed/flawed law school model many times, but now I think I should discuss in further detail what exactly I mean when I reference these.  Here are my thoughts (in no pariclar order of importance). 

Law school does not prepare students to be small business owners.

At orientation, there were many speakers who described the rigors of a legal education, the stress that comes with applying to the Bar, the "many doors" that JD's open, all peppered with jokes about the fancy cars that most lawyers drive. What none of these speakers mentioned is that most attorneys, especially in the current job market, are basically on their own. They did not tell me that career services would not help those students who were ranked below the top 33% of their classes, and would instead tell them they would need to hang out their own shingles. (True story: an unfortunate classmate of mine had a 3.0 GPA, and was ranked just in the middle of the class. She was paying out-of-state tuition, and had racked up $160,000 in loans, when she went to career services for help in finding a job. She was told to hang out her own shingle, even though she had no business training and the law school did not offer a course in operating one's own practice.) I was lucky enough to find a decent-paying job upon graduation, but if I had not, I would have been in the same boat as many of my classmates, forced to run a small business with no training and no idea how to even practice law.

If you are considering law school, I implore you to first ask yourself whether you know how to run a business, and if so, do you think you can run that business successfully when you do not even know if you are competent to offer your services?

Which brings me to my next point.

Law school does not prepare students for the actual practice of law.

I completed an internship during the summer after my 2L year at the DA's office. This provided me with courtroom experience, but most of my fellow students were not as fortunate. Most law students take classes that involve listening to lectures, reading case law and statutes, and maybe conducting an exercise or two in oral argument. None of which matter when you are faced with an actual client sitting across your desk.

Even with my valuable experience of representing the State in the courtroom for a few weeks, I still had no idea how to conduct a client meeting, or how to structure a fee agreement. Or even how to go about suing someone in the state in which I practiced. All of that knowledge came later, after I had the opportunity to work with more experienced attorneys who showed me the ropes and who made me calendar deadlines properly.

This is a critical failure of the current law school model. No one knows what they're doing upon graduation. New graduates are in need of mentors, but oftentimes they end up on their own, and they end up failing or quitting or moving back in with their parents because they cannot develop enough business to support themselves.

Here is a valuable law school exercise that I will provide you at no charge: go to the Supreme Court's website and read through some of the opinions. Then go to your state legislature's website, or your city/municipality's website and read a chapter of statutes or ordinances. Pick out a topic that interests you like criminal law, or insurance regulation. Once you have finished reading your cases and statutes/ordinances, ask yourself what you would tell a client who was arrested, or who felt he had been defrauded by his insurance company. How would you tell him to proceed? What would you tell him you could do for him? How much would you charge him? What timeline would you provide for resolving his case? Do you think he will prevail?

If you feel that after reading the materials I assigned you, you could confidently answer these questions, then law school is for you. There are two reasons I say this: you are either a) a genius who will be picked up by one of the big firms and you will not have to worry about figuring things out yourself, or b) so delusional that you probably do not have the mental faculties required to complete a JD, so you will never have to worry about practicing on your own.

The study of law is nothing like actual law practice.

This flows from my previous point that law school does not prepare one for the practice of law. In law school, students partake in the Socratic method. You read a bunch of materials and the professor drills you on them, questions everything you say. You must defend your position on a topic that is almost always interesting and has vast political implications. At the end of the semester, the professor will read your essay exam and provide you with a grade that reflects how well he or she believes you have retained the lessons imparted during the past few months.

In reality, when you practice law, most of the time you will be sitting alone in a room, keeping track of billable hours, and drafting mind-numbing research memos. One after the other. Westlaw and/or Lexis will become your best friends and worst enemies. Your research topics will most likely involve issues that no one cares about, save for the client. Can Janie sue her classmate for spilling soda at prom, which caused her to slip and fall and sprain her ankle? What is Fred's recourse when his insurance company offers him less than he had anticipated for the car that he totaled? Can Pam get a restraining order on her ex-boyfriend even though he has never hit her, but her parents think he is controlling? If Pam gets that restraining order, how will that affect her ex's child support obligations or custody arrangement?

Oh, and did I mention the best part? No one will read these memos. You see, your supervising attorney does not have time to read them because he or she tees off at 3:00 sharp. He or she would simply like to know the answer to the question, in 10 seconds or less, and will then direct you to file the memo away, just in case the client ever questions the bill. That memo will serve as proof that actual work was performed for the client. But no one will grade you on it. No one will tell you how awesome your case law synthesis turned out or want to speak with you further about the greater implications of the answers to these legal questions. No one cares, you see, because no one wants to actually practice law. They just want to make enough money to afford country club dues and to pawn off research assignments on young associates, who will then turn around and do the same in a few years when it's their turn.  And you will not be one of these lucky young associates because the legal job market is steadily shrinking and most small firms will not even consider anyone not in the top half of their class (which leaves a lot of graduates with their cheese out in the wind) and the big firms will only consider the top 10-20%, depending on school ranking. 

If you are considering law school, ask yourself if you could handle working in a field in which no one will ever give you positive feedback, whether it is a supervising attorney or a client. The supervising attorneys will only gripe if there are holes in your research, but will otherwise remain silent, and clients will only complain about your bill. If you manage a favorable outcome for them, it was because their cause was just. If you do not, it is because you were incompetent. Do you want this for yourself? Or, more appropriately, would you ever wish this on anyone?

Unless you have a scholarship or a rich relative paying your tuition, your income will almost never justify the amount spent earning your JD.

Consider that the average law school debt for public school graduates is a little over $68K and over $109K for private schools (for the 2009-2010 school year). Suppose you are able to spread out $68K over 30 years. Your payments, assuming a 6% interest rate, will be $408 per month. $109K spread out over 30 years will be $654 per month. Remember, this assumes 6% interest, and that you can spread the loans out over 30 years. So that's between $4,896 and $7,848 per year spent on student loan payments, not counting undergraduate degree payments. You can only deduct $2,500 per year on your federal income taxes, and only for the first five years after you begin repaying. Considering the average attorney salary has been steadily dropping (to about $63K currently), this means you will be spending somewhere around 10% of your income on student loan payments. Considering that the average salary for a college graduate is $46K, what exactly have you gained from earning a law degree? A few thousand dollars a year? Which will be eaten away by all of the extra hours spent working in a field that will eat away at your soul and make you want to auction off your JD.

Let’s do a little math here and figure out just how well you’ll be living with a JD and an annual salary of $63K.  Would you like to buy a house? Have a car? Health insurance? Contribute to your retirement? Ok, then, let’s go!

Assuming you are single, you will be in the 25% federal tax bracket. And we’ll assume state and local taxes are 5%, give or take. And your health insurance premiums are $300 per month. And that you contribute 2.5% of your salary to your 401(k). Here are your pre-tax deductions:

$5,250 is your gross monthly pay.

After deducting $300 for health insurance premiums and $131.25 for 401(k), you are left with $4,818.75. Now comes Big Bertha, also known as the IRS. Deduct 30% for federal, state, and local taxes, which brings your monthly take-home to $3,373.13.

Now let’s say you purchase a $165,000 home with no money down and a 30-year fixed-rate mortgage at 5% interest. Your mortgage payment will be $885.76. Assume property taxes to be about 3%, which is $4,950 annually. That’s $412.50 per month. (My husband’s and my property taxes were a lot higher than this, but we are from a ridiculously expensive state). Ok, here’s your monthly budget:

$3,373.13

-$885.76 (mortgage)
-$412.50 (property taxes)
-$150.00 (heating, cooling, and electricity, which will vary by state and climate)
-$100 (phone/cell)
-$100 (cable, internet)
-$300 (car payment)
-$100 (car insurance)
-$400 (groceries)
-$200 (gas)
$724.87 (surplus)

Now, how are you going to spend that extra $725 per month that you have lying around? Movies, clothing, furniture, meals out? Oh, wait, I forgot one of the most important deductions. Your student loan! Let’s take away $654, assuming you have $100K in student loan debt at 6% interest amortized over 30 years. That leaves you with $71. You can spend it however you want – credit card bill, clothing, dates (which you probably won’t have many of, since people with six-figure debt do not have much value on the marriage market), anything! Just be sure not to have any emergencies, like a broken down car or a molar in need of a root canal.  And absolutely no vacations or kids!  (If you really want to find some extra cushion in your budget, you can always drive a beater until you are sixty, or take on a second job.)  But remember, it is all worth it because you are a prestigious attorney.

If you are considering law school, think about whether you actually want to practice law, and are willing to mortgage your future in the hopes of successfully building a career in a field in which salaries continue to decrease, as well as demand. Do you think you will be able to later out-earn your current financial stupidity?

Law schools lie about employment statistics.

Another topic not discussed at orientation? Graduate employment statistics. The speakers did not clarify whether the 97% boasted at my school reflected the number of graduates who were actually employed in the legal field, or if that figure included graduates who were forced to find work in other lucrative fields. Nor did anyone discuss the way in which employment statistics are calculated, and whether the statistics are actually plausible.

If you are considering law school, the first thing you should do is write down a list of the schools you would like to attend.  Then pick out your top choice, and get your hands on a list containing the names of its most recent graduates.  (Try attending a graduation and obtaining a program there, or call up the school and say you had a relative who recently graduated and were wondering if you could get a copy of the program.)  Now the real fun will begin.  Wait a few months, then go to the Bar website for the state in which the school is located and start looking up the names of the graduates.  See how many you find that list an actual employer under their contact information, rather than their home address.  For the names that do not appear anywhere, begin looking those up on other Bar websites until you have exhausted all of your resources.  Now count the names of those who you did not find, or who did not list an employer in their contact information.  Take that number and subtract it from the number of total graduates you looked up.  Then divide that number by the total number of graduates you looked up and you will arrive at an accurate employment figure.  But that will all take too long or require too much effort, you say?  I say you’re right, it’s better to just go six figures into debt by relying on a brochure than to conduct any actual research yourself.  I'm sure the guy who wrote the brochure dotted his i's and crossed his t's.  I mean, what's in it for him to fudge the numbers? (I should probably warn you that your hesitation at embarking on such an involved research assignment does not bode well for your future as a practicing attorney.  Just sayin’.) 

The Bottom Line

My point in discussing the flawed law school model is not to piss on anyone's dreams of becoming the next Perry Mason. What I would like to see is transparency in advertising employment statistics, frankness when discussing job prospects with students, course offerings in how to run one's own practice, tuition rates that reflect current market demand and compensation, and more opportunities for students to observe and experience the reality of law practice.

Are you considering law school? And if so, is there anything that could convince you not to go, or do you think you have made up your mind no matter what?

How Many Doors Did Your JD Open?

For anyone who's bitter about high student loan debt and/or the dearth of (paying) legal jobs out there, check out this piece from Nando of Third Tier Reality, which sheds some unflattering light on the higher education scam.  It includes some sobering statistics regarding the glut of student loan debt in the U.S., the lack of available jobs that require advanced degrees, as well as the frighteningly inflated tuition prices some law schools are charging their "customers" these days.  

Also, if you feel like getting involved in protesting or sharing your views on the higher education scam, check out the upcoming protest scheduled to take place October 8th in San Diego, California. 

A Woman Left Lonely

When one makes the decision to quit law, where does she turn for support and advice? What about JD’s who are having trouble finding legal work in an endless sea of newly-minted attorneys? Where do they turn? The question of where to find a support system for such a unique problem is one I still struggle with on a daily basis, even though it has been over a year since I left my law career.

Last year after I quit my job, I did not tell my dad right away. He was going through a health crisis and I didn’t want to upset him. About a week after I put in my notice, the time came for him to have surgery and I went to visit him in the hospital. He asked me how my job was going and I told him I had given notice because I found something better. I hinted that it wasn’t entirely legal related, but that I was happy about my decision and excited about new possibilities. Rather than asking for more details on my new job, he just got this disappointed look on his face and said, “well at least you have your degree.” And that was that. I could tell he felt let down that he could no longer pass my business card along to his friends and brag about his daughter, the attorney. I had never felt more guilty. And then I felt angry that he had the power to make me feel that way.

In the hospital waiting room, my step-brother told me that my husband had mentioned my new job. Was I still an attorney, he asked with a furrowed brow. Well, if he meant was I still barred and licensed to practice law if I wanted, then yes. I don’t think that’s the answer he was looking for.

To put a little perspective on things, I have to tell you that I do not come from a family of overachievers. No one in my immediate family ever attended college, much less any kind of graduate program. I was the one assigned to legitimize everyone by finishing law school and becoming a professional.

My family and I have had our differences. After high school, I was completely estranged from them for about five years. During that time, I moved in with some friends, worked my way through night school at the local community college, and was accepted into a university, which was paid for with grants and loans. By the time I reunited with my family, I was applying to law schools, which thrilled my father to no end. Still, I never felt that close with him or my sisters. It just felt strange to be around them after such a long separation. It is true that you can’t go home again.

Since the two brief conversations I had with my dad and step-brother in the hospital last year, I have not spoken with anyone about my career. My husband and I have since moved across the country and started a new life, so it has been quite simple to not talk about the end of my legal career. My family assumes I am studying for the Bar and will begin practicing once I am admitted. I know I need to have the conversation with them to let them know on no uncertain terms that I am no longer going to practice law professionally. I just haven’t had the courage to initiate the conversation yet since the last time I tried, I felt rejected, guilty, and ashamed.

I know there are many JD’s out there who have been assigned the same role I was, to make the family proud. How have you found support while trying to find legal employment in such a bleak market? Are there any attorneys out there who have chosen not to practice whose families have been supportive? I would love to hear from you, since Thanksgiving is just around the corner…

Jose Aponte: 0. TTT: 100,000

This just in from the Wall Street Journal: some lawyers make as little as $15 per hour.  Where were you guys back in 2004?  Maybe you were there all along, but I ignored articles like these, convinced I would never be one of "them." 

The truth is, I did not have a very tough time finding a job after law school.  But I never received an offer even close to the median salary of $75k my school advertised in their marketing materials.  And I went to a top-20 school.  Has anyone else heard of American University's Washington College of Law? 

(Oh, and if you don't know what "TTT" means, check out "Third Tier Reality."  You won't be sorry.) 

Poor Jose Aponte...

Are Law Students Ignorant Cretins?

A retired Canadian law professor claims the current Canadian law school model has turned legal education into "kindergarten for cretins." Robert Martin claims deregulation of law school tuition resulted in schools developing the Wal-Mart Model (presumably meaning law schools are now offering cheap education at a high volume). The McLean's article, which does not link to Martin's original article that was published in the journal, Interchange, does not specify whether Martin believes the legal market is over-saturated as a result, but by stating that law degrees can now be bought by virtually any sucker who will pay the inflated tuition, he is certainly implying just that.

I am a bit offended that Martin calls law school graduates illiterate and ignorant. Most law school graduates, even those who did not attend first-tier institutions, are probably fairly intelligent and ambitious, although misguided in their attempt to secure middle-class lifestyles by paying six-figures for degrees of questionable value. I believe most of the blame falls on the institutions who charge exorbitant tuition rates while promising graduates starting salaries of $70K +. Maybe that story will be in next month's issue.

The Man Behind the Curtain

Remember the scene in the Wizard of Oz when the main characters discover the wizard is not so magical after all? It sort of reminds me of a blog I recently came across, entitled, "Exposing the Law School Scam." It completely sucked me in. The lawyers on this blog contend that law school is nothing more than a "man behind the curtain" scenario, as in the Wizard of Oz. Law schools falsely advertise misleading employment and salary statistics and trick uninformed young hopefuls into believing that a J.D. is a magical, Golden Ticket into the land of wealth and prosperity. In fact, nothing could be further from the truth.

At least that's what the lawyers at "Exposing the Law School Scam" claim. I can't say I experienced the same trouble finding gainful employment after law school, but I will say that I definitely had a rosier picture of the legal profession when I entered law school than when I left it. I recall attending orientation about a week before the start of my 1L year, when one of the deans pontificated on how many doors a law degree opens. Pffft. Man, if only I had a time machine and a large polo mallet. The only "doors" my law degree opened were to my therapist's office and the temp agency for which I currently work.

It's not all the law school's fault, though. Sure, they probably inflated their employment statistics, but that's not the real problem I have with them. My beef is they tell incoming law students that a law degree is a great career investment for just about any field you may want to enter. This is simply not true. The truth is a law degree is a terrific investment if you want to be a practicing attorney. If not, DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT GO TO LAW SCHOOL. It is a waste of time and money unless you are absolutely, positively, one hundred percent sure that you want to represent clients for 60+ hours per week, most of which will be spent arguing with other attorneys and reviewing long-winded case law in search of a magic piece of dicta that you can include in your brief to win your client's case. If this does not sound like an appealing career path, run, don't walk, to the registrar's office and drop all of your classes. If you do it soon enough at the start of the semester, you may even get some of your tuition back.

My other beef with law schools is what they do not tell you at orientation: if you do not fall within the top 10-20% of your class, you will not be earning a six-figure salary upon graduation. The reason they do not tell you this is because were it not for the bottom 80-90% of students, there would be no such thing as the order of the coif. Big Law firms could not tell their clients that "our attorneys were all in the top twenty percent of their law school classes." So, law schools and big firms need that bottom 80-90% in order to distinguish the great legal minds of tomorrow from the Lionel Hutzes of the legal world. The truth is that if you do not rise to the top of your class, you will most likely be working as a prosecutor or public defender, or will be working for a small firm that will pay you only a fraction of what Big Law pays, which will probably not be enough to cover your law school debt. The other alternative is that you can hang out your own shingle, which, from what I've heard, is not exactly lucrative.

What do you think of the law school scam? For those of you who did not graduate in the top 20%, what kind of work did you find after law school?